Rev. Fransisca Rumokoy: From Indonesia to NYC

October 12, 2022 00:57:06
Rev. Fransisca Rumokoy: From Indonesia to NYC
Lavish Hope
Rev. Fransisca Rumokoy: From Indonesia to NYC

Oct 12 2022 | 00:57:06


Hosted By

Rev. Liz Testa

Show Notes

When Rev. Ancela Fransisca Rumokoy arrived in New York City from Indonesia, she didn’t know English, but she did know that God had sent her to the U.S. to be a pastor. What happened next is an amazing story of hope and resilience. With wisdom and humor, she shares the joys and challenges of her journey with Rev. Liz Testa on this week’s episode of Lavish Hope. She also offers encouragement to listeners and casts an inspiring vision for the future of the church.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Welcome to Lavish Hope, season four. I'm your host, Liz Tesa. In this episode, I'm joined by Reverend Anella Franca. Amalia Ruo, originally from Indonesia and ordained there in 2010. Pastor Franca and her family arrived in New York City in 2014, speaking no English, and knowing very little except that God had sent her to be a pastor in the United States. What happened next is an amazing story of hope and resilience, and trusting in God to provide and lead the way. Today she is the solo pastor of First Reform Church in Uch in New Jersey, a long way from her hometown of Manado Indonesia, and she is the current president of the Reform Church in America's Council for Pacific and Asian American Ministries. With spiritual wisdom and a delightful sense of humor, Pastor Franziska shares the joys and challenges of her journey, encourages listeners as we all make our way and cast an inspiring vision for the future of the church, One that is full of young people sharing their gifts, music, and multimedia. I can't wait for you to learn more. Let's jump in. Greetings everyone, and welcome to the Lavish Hope Podcast. I'm your host, Liz Tesa, and today I am so delighted to be sitting in conversation with my dear sister in ministry and colleague and friend, Pastor Franca, Ru McCoy, who is just up the road from me here in New Jersey. Pastor Franca, welcome. Welcome. Speaker 1 00:01:39 Thank you. Speaker 0 00:01:41 So glad that you're here with us today. And so, um, Pastor fka, can you just share with our listeners a little bit about yourself so they can get to know you? Speaker 1 00:01:49 My name actually Anala Francisco McCoy, but famous with Pastor Francisco <laugh>, the second name I in. Um, I live in New Jersey, um, Meach, New Jersey, and now surf, uh, at the reform of, and I've been this in this church for almost seven years, but became a lead pastor since last year, 2021 in Cole, Senior Pastor. Speaker 0 00:02:17 Congratulations. Speaker 1 00:02:21 Uh, I've been married for 19 years. We just celebrate my 19 years anniversary. My husband and I have, uh, uh, one kids. I mean, I have boys one 12 years old now, seventh grade. Speaker 0 00:02:39 So, Pastor Franca, you have an, you have a really, um, compelling story to share, which I know you'll do in just a couple of minutes, but one thing I like to ask my guests from the, at the very beginning is, uh, you know, the title of our podcast is Lavish Hope, Stories of Resilience and Overcoming mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I like to ask my guests just what does resilience mean to you, and how has it been shaped by your past and maybe changed or deepened by your experiences? Speaker 1 00:03:09 Yeah. Most of our, my life, I say our, is my family because I always come with my family. Um, um, I always follow whatever Gods wants me to do. If, if people asking me, uh, which one the better place for me in Indonesia, in so many city I I serve in Indonesia and here, I mean, um, when they asking, I just, I always answer them with one, one statement in God present. That's it. So for me, um, try to learn the will of God in every situation. It save me a lot. Sometimes, um, I pray for the things like this, but not, not all the things like side, side, what I means I pray for, and it make me more understand. I need to try to understand more about God's will, better than my will, so I can follow whatever, um, God's wants. The, the true story. I always be all people say, Oh, you always obey, Nah. That every time I always be like the person to run away for all the calling <laugh>, but it make me more strong. So when I disobey, that's the result. And when I obey this is the result. So it, um, like change my mind a lot the way that I thought. So I feel like better to follow whatever God wants me to do. Speaker 1 00:04:47 Hmm. Than run away. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:04:50 That's so beautiful. That's like the story of Jonah and the whale, Right. <laugh> running away from God. So that's interesting. So when you're talking about resilience, it is about whatever your response is to God's call, learning from that and then walking in obedience. Speaker 1 00:05:09 Yeah. Try, try to think a positive in every even negative situation. Speaker 0 00:05:15 Nice. That is something that we need more than ever right now in today's world. How to think positive even in the negative situation. That's great. Thank you. You have such a compelling story, Pastor Franca. Can you share with us a story of resilience and overcoming? Speaker 1 00:05:33 I think I will start with my story to come, come to United States. I think that's, um, 2014, um, I think around February, 2014. I, I don't know if, if people understand or not God, like talk to me, go to America. I have no dream to come to America. I even have no desire to come. I have no, um, like purpose to come to America. Even America I know is a big country, but I didn't know which part of America where, where to go. So when, when, um, someone come to me and asking me to come to, to, uh, United State to serve one of an Indonesia congregation in San Francisco at the, uh, at a moment, and I say like, Hmm, let me think about it. And then, um, it comes to my mind for almost two weeks and Okay, let's pray. I, I, I, I pray to God this is your way or my way. Speaker 1 00:06:33 I don't want to go if it's not your way, but looks like the person that got got a sent to me to ask me to come to America looks like this is like, uh, I can say maybe, uh, God talked to him and, and, um, to forward the message, to go to, to come, I mean, um, to, to, for the message to me. And then I feel okay. And, you know, as I'm a, a person, I'm a human being. I have my thought. I have my, my, um, brilliant mindset, <laugh>, and I say, I, I, I go to America. I don't want to. And after that, I ask so many times, God and I, I, I ask, um, with sign and all fasting and everything that I did looks like all the, all the answer I need to come to America. And three times I ask God with the sign, I don't want to explain very, very long story. Speaker 1 00:07:35 I asked the, the first, the first sign, and then the, the answer is yes. And then I'm, I'm not trust. And I, I ask the second sign, and then yes. And I, I ask the third sign, and yes. Oh my God, I don't want to, I don't want, And you know, I'm a human. I'm human. So I, I I say to, I tell to my husband, uh, we need to fasting. And I, I, I do fasting like 40 days. And, uh, the sign and the answer is yes. And after that I say, We don't need to procrastination. We need to make a a step of faith. I don't want make a guts. I don't want to, to upset him. I don't want to be like, say before Jonna ran away from the calling and after that, and I say, Okay, you know, um, my step of faith, I, I saw my house and my property, and I go to embassy if, you know, to come to America to go and, and to ask, uh, to, to go to embassy, to ask a visas to come here. It's very difficult for Indonesia. And I just come with my faith, my faith, and then I already saw everything. If, if the visas not come, it means there's nothing <laugh>. And then thank God got very fast, everybody. I got the, the voice. And I, I try to, uh, find, uh, the answer. And I think I got the thesis on June and, uh, Algo, I came to United States 2014. Speaker 0 00:09:06 February is when you first heard God calling you. Speaker 1 00:09:09 Yes. You Speaker 0 00:09:10 Did your three times, you did your 40 days of fasting, you did all your signs, everything. Then you went through the visa at the embassy, had to get through all of that red tape, we say in English, right? Speaker 1 00:09:21 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:09:22 And then you got the Visa in June, you said? Speaker 1 00:09:27 Yeah, I got my, my visa in June. Speaker 0 00:09:30 So quickly. Speaker 1 00:09:30 And then, and Speaker 0 00:09:32 Then August, you were here. Speaker 1 00:09:33 Yeah. I go the end of algo. I was here, but, and, and very, very interesting, if you want to know, I, I came to the wrong place because my invitation go to, um, um, Washington State, because no one that I know except one, one person, um, that I know who has a daughter in United, I mean, uh, in, um, in New York, because, um, she work at the United Nation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> the, uh, her mom say like this, Okay, you can run with me because Washington is close, just for hour. I say, I will go to Washington. I dunno if America have to Washington, Right? I say, I'll go to Washington. Okay. Because Washington for hour from New York, use a plan. Okay. Okay. So I bought a ticket, send the ticket with her to come to here. So that's why when I came here, the, the officer say, You came to the wrong place. I say, No, <laugh> was from, And then I say, No, you need to go to Washington State. I say, Yeah, for, Speaker 0 00:10:53 Oh, no, Speaker 1 00:10:54 Wrong, You know, was DC and what say totally different place. Speaker 0 00:11:01 Oh my goodness. Oh my Speaker 1 00:11:03 Goodness. Well, it means I'm just, I'm just obey like blind woman come okay. To United States, Which part of United States I didn't know I, I started, but Speaker 0 00:11:13 What happened to the church in San Francisco? Speaker 1 00:11:16 Um, to be honest with you, the, um, the, the people who call me like, um, elder in the church, and I, I don't want to go there because the pastor, the previous pastors still there. Oh, okay. And then the previous pastor, um, don't know when I was, uh, I mean, I don't know. I will come. Speaker 0 00:11:37 Okay. But Speaker 1 00:11:38 That, that made me, so I say better. You, you talk each other and say, Pastor, because a pastor, maybe they need to retire. I don't know. What's a big round. And then after that, I, I just say, Better you, you, you fix everything, the situation, position, make sure a pastor know I will come. Got it. And I dunno, but God changed or maybe that's the right place for me. And then when I was in, in New Jersey, in New York, I say, God, I don't want, uh, New York, New York, so complicated. I want, and God, like, just two weeks or three weeks. And I, I, I, uh, moved to New Jersey because I have like Indonesia community, community here. And I feel like I want to, uh, know, uh, a lot of, uh, seminary. I, because I, the, the purpose, Okay, the purpose God sent me, but my desire, I don't, I want to study more <laugh>. I want, Okay, I hear about Princeton. So a lot of interesting for me. So, Speaker 0 00:12:42 So you got to New York, you found out that Washington state where you were thinking to go was too far away other side of the whole country, whole continent. Yeah. So then instead of going to Washington State, you went to New Jersey <laugh>. Speaker 1 00:12:56 Yes, you're Speaker 0 00:12:56 Right. That's great. Speaker 1 00:12:58 And then that's the start over. I, I know like Indonesia commodity. Yes. And at the same time, I think just two months, they, they try to call me, and then I preach in, uh, like several place, uh, the church and, and three church at the same time, asking me to be be their pastor Indonesia pastor. Oh. But again, the same way, the same way I always happen when I'm so stressful to, to answer right away or when I ask God and give me the sign. So I ask God, and one of the church is a reform hoach, um, the half of, um, several Indonesia member there, but they, they worship there, but they, they really like to have Indonesia speaking, um, like worship Indonesia language. So that's a, that's a very first, very first they have like, I think six people. And then we, when I do my sermon the first time, uh, preaching my fir my my, my first time preaching, I have eight people. Speaker 0 00:14:06 Hmm. Speaker 1 00:14:06 Eight people to, I never forget. Um, uh, November 9th, 2014, my first time preaching at Reform Hein. And when I pray, and God say that's, that's a right church. You, you need to, you need to, um, like lead the Indonesian there. So Speaker 0 00:14:25 There's, So that was beginning an Indonesian worship service at an English speaking church. An Anglo church Yes. Reform church of Metin. Speaker 1 00:14:33 Yes. Speaker 0 00:14:35 And you had eight people. Speaker 1 00:14:36 Yes. Speaker 0 00:14:37 And God said, Here you are. This is your eight <laugh>. Yes. Okay. Wow. Speaker 1 00:14:44 I start with eight people without knowing any, uh, any things about church planting. I just, I just, uh, pastor from Indonesia with my, all my experience late, the congregation, I have a big congregation in Indonesia when I was like, um, make, make, make, um, my commitment to come here. So when I sold eight people, <laugh>, I feel like, but obedience, smallest beauty. <laugh>, Speaker 0 00:15:16 Yes. Speaker 1 00:15:18 To, to start the obedience. I don't need big number. Speaker 0 00:15:29 When you've told this story in our church settings, you've named that there was the American pastor that was there. Yeah. Was very encouraging to Speaker 1 00:15:39 You. Yes. Can I, I said Pastor Peter, Pastor is, um, a previous pastors senior. Your pastor, Pastor Peter, is one of a leader who encouraged me a lot to be part of Reform Church, to be honest. A lot of, uh, a lot of difficulties when my, uh, my, my, my status, my position very first is very status to get, to get, uh, to get in. I, I, I need to go to the lawyer and everything to start over. Everything but should be there. I never give up. And always, you need to go to under care from classes, New, New Brunswick, my classes. So you need to go and you need to, uh, be, uh, under care. And then I'm, I'm very sad because the first, the first, when I do the, um, interfere with the, uh, several folks, I, I say maybe, um, the leader of the new Brun classes and looks like I need to go over again, start over again. And I say, I'm not fair. I'm a pastor from Indonesia since 2010, and I did the congregation there. And, and when I came here, it looks like they're accounting, everything. <laugh>. I said, No, we counting everything. But so I, I need to go in through, uh, with, um, uh, Credo and whatever I say I did already. I say, You need to, you need to re Wow. Speaker 0 00:17:06 You needed to be credentialed. So you already, you know, I'm just thinking, and I'm sure there's, we have listeners who, who know this experience in other professions that you have people that come fully credentialed, like you were a pastor in Indonesia. And even more, you know, sometimes we talk about women being pastors, right? So you came from, I know that your story, of course, that you came from a place where women pastors was normal. So that was usual. So you were fully equipped. You had your congregation, you had your experience, four years of experience, um, in the church. And then you came here and they're telling you, uh, you, you mentioned the classes of New Brunswick. So people that might not know what, what that is, um, that's kind of like the governing group of churches and pastors in a specific region is called the classes. And so the classes of New Brunswick is the area of sort of the governing group in the area that your church and that you found yourself. So you had to go to them to get their credentialing, to be a reverend, considered a reverend in our denomination called the Reform Church in America, and to be able to fully lead a congregation and administer the sacraments and all that sort of thing. Yes. So you went to that meeting and it felt like they were asking you to start over again from the very beginning. Yes. Speaker 1 00:18:28 Yes. Speaker 0 00:18:28 Oh my goodness. Speaker 1 00:18:29 And 2015, right? As I, I start in 2016, all the things, incredible on all the exam, uh, even until now, I forget all the exam, <laugh> forget. Although what kinda exam, I think I I I've been through like six exam or mm-hmm. <affirmative> for exam, the several exam with my, Speaker 0 00:18:49 Well, the good news is they wanna make sure, you know, I had in my classes of New York, there's 14, so be glad you went to New Jersey. <laugh> Speaker 1 00:18:57 <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:18:58 But, but you know, they wanna make sure that if you're going to pastor, you're gonna preach, you're gonna, you know, proclaim the word that you are truly properly educated, that you're mentally, spiritually healthy, all those things. But I can still imagine, I mean, that was a lot to overcome, right? I mean, I I'm sure your, your commitment to walking in obedience. Speaker 1 00:19:22 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:19:22 Right. With God's calling on your life must have been, I mean, you must have been holding onto that so tightly. Speaker 1 00:19:30 Yeah. That sent, that sent several people surround me. I mean, like Pastor Peter and, um, I, Elder and deacon in, in this church also encourage, you need to go into that. And then they, they helped me a lot also. I was very drawn. I mean, I'm very drained because a lot of things to do, congregation, and I just knew, do the paperwork and, and they always like, encourage me. It meant a lot for me. Speaker 0 00:19:57 So, so Pastor Franco, so you're saying, I wanna name this because it's so beautiful. You're talking about how important it is when thinking about how people can overcome things. You have to have people around you to encourage you. Speaker 1 00:20:11 Sure. Right? I Speaker 0 00:20:13 Can call them Think that's, Go ahead. Speaker 1 00:20:15 I can call them my super system. Speaker 0 00:20:18 Yes. So beautiful. Speaker 1 00:20:19 Yeah. People who always encourage me because I'm not superwoman or Superman, I'm just human. Sometimes I have a weakness, sometimes I need to think twice. And yeah, we can, we can, we can say like very weak, because most of pastor, we, we don't want to tell our weakness to the congregation <laugh>. But I, I've been honest, I've been honest because, um, when, when going through a lot of exam and in the same, and sometimes you need to, uh, lead the congregation, and I tell you, I'm a pastor from immigrant congregation, most of Indonesia, right? Like, I mean, like 80% Indonesia before, before eight people now more than hundred. So, so all, all the, all the things, like they, they, the center of everything is a pastor. They need pastor most of their time. They need pastor to be the translator. They need pastor to go to the mv they need pastor to go to, to, to go to, uh, even if they have, uh, something to their house, their kids to do, going to school, a lot of things. And at the same times, they've, they forced me. You need to do that, that <laugh> be like, Oh. But, but I'm so thankful that's a part of a resilience process. Yes. A part, uh, the part of a, um, I can say God saved me to be more faithful surfing and be, I can tell, I don't want to say the, the real pa, I mean the pastor who always listen and, and, um, very straight to hear God's voice. I mean, Speaker 0 00:22:08 Yeah. To be open to that, right? Yeah. That is a discipline to be listening to God's voice for God's voice, and then to God's voice. But there's, so there's two things, Pastor Franziska. One is you just slid it in there. So quietly you went from eight people, the first preaching, and to how many now? Speaker 1 00:22:31 Um, with all the kids, I think 150, around that 120 or 30, Speaker 0 00:22:37 120. 120. Yeah. That is pretty amazing. So congratulations. Wow. I mean, that right there is a story of lavish hope in a nutshell. You came with eight, and now you have so many, I mean, 120, that's, so I don't even know what the percentage is more, but that's just an unbelievable, And you were able to do what you needed to do to get the proper credentialing, right? Yeah. So you, you honored that process. Speaker 1 00:23:09 Yeah, 2000, 2008. 2016. Let me, 2017. Um, they recognize all the process and recognize I'm part of, uh, classic New Brunswick and be, uh, the pastor word in sacrament or dean, I mean, or Speaker 0 00:23:30 Minister of word in Sacramento, Speaker 1 00:23:32 <laugh>, they call Reor. It's like strange. Yeah. Because I'm ordained before. Yeah. And re ordained again. Um, 2017. And the church, this just calling me be the COPA here, 2018. Speaker 0 00:23:45 Okay, so first you became then co-pastor. So that's also beautiful. And I wanna name that, that in some places, right? You have the, the, the immigrant church or the different language Church. Different culture church. You have the dominant culture, English speaking church, and then you have the other church, and they're separate Speaker 1 00:24:05 Mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:24:05 <affirmative>. But here, your pastor Peter, and you Pastor Franco are co-pastors. Speaker 1 00:24:12 Yeah. We call United Church. We call, we combine church before we try to do like, uh, colleague gate or something like that. But we need each other. So I, I can tell all the things, beautiful things happen when we going together. So when Pastor Peter retired, this is very, I mean, I think never happened. Like Copa become a senior pastor right away. There's like a lot of process also to going through the, And, um, the church need time. Like, I can tell a lot of process also to be, uh, uh, the, they call senior pastor or solo pastor a lot of things also. Speaker 0 00:25:00 So, so Pastor Peter as the senior pastor, then he became co-pastor with you, and then he needed to retire because he was older, right? He was retirement age. Speaker 1 00:25:13 Yes. I think almost 70 or Yeah, 60. Yeah. Pastor was bit retired. And then, um, there's no one except me to, to continue because, uh, I have like 80% in, uh, Indonesia mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So maybe that's, I just, I just make a job in myself, Speaker 0 00:25:33 <laugh> <laugh>, Speaker 1 00:25:35 Because I mean, I know my, my ability to say who, who I am, God. And I lead this congregation. I lead both Indonesia and Anglo community. I think, I feel, I feel like, I feel I'm unworthy to be honest. But when, when God always say, I send you, I send you, We don ok, I'm okay. <laugh>. Ok. Speaker 0 00:25:57 We have to, they say, they have a saying in some places, Yeah. Believe God. We just have to believe God. Speaker 1 00:26:04 I know. It's, it's very easy to say, believe God when you come thousand 14 without knowing English. And then now you need to speak in English and like fluent in English to be a preacher. And sometime when I'm being nervous and all the work like gone totally through my mind, <laugh>, that's not easy. Speaker 0 00:26:24 I don't even, I mean, I don't even know what to say really about this amazing thing that, I mean, talk about what could be an obstacle, right? In some places that could be what they call a deal breaker that you not, So it's enough that you're being called to pastor an Indonesian church in the United States in this country that you didn't even wanna come to <laugh>. And here you are being obedient, living into this calling. And now God is saying, you're also going to do it with an Anglo congregation, and you're gonna learn English, and you're gonna preach. I mean, it's one thing to learn English to go to the grocery store. It's another thing to learn English, to preach and teach the gospel <laugh>. Speaker 1 00:27:10 Yeah. I feel like I learn English, I think more seven years, right. And I, I learn English from my, my son. Yeah. I've been honest. And sometime my sense and your pronoun Asian's, not like date mom, <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:27:28 Oh, cute. Speaker 1 00:27:29 Like me, <laugh>. Okay. And then now I, I feel like God prepare everything. Speaker 0 00:27:36 Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 00:27:37 He's my provider. Speaker 0 00:27:39 Isn't that so beautiful? Speaker 1 00:27:40 Yeah. He's, he's my provider. When I remember that say, You need to go and I will provide everything. I don't know what kind of profile. I don't know. Uh, I don't know. Um, what's the meaning of profile when I arrive here and I know now, God, God guide me, lead me, and now everything's, I can see by my eyes, God open from, from, from nothing. I mean, I don't know. Even, I don't know one of, uh, Indonesia people in here, no one I know. And then God send me like, beautiful congregate, I mean, beautiful people to come and help me and to, to live with, with, with guts wheel, and to leave, um, obedience together to do his work in this ministry. I mean, I just, sometimes when I sit down, I say, God, you always make a joke with me. Are you kidding? You make me like these. Yeah. I feel like, I don't know how to say <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:28:46 Yeah. That's so beautiful. So Pastor Fran Scott, tell us, where do you find resilience when you don't have it? When it gets like difficult, What do you lean on to help you? Speaker 1 00:29:07 Yeah, he's my hiding place. I need talking in his present. That's all. There's no place when people asking me this, my first, uh, statement before, I mean, when people ask where, where, where the best place for you in Indonesia, America, I say, The best place is in the present of the Lord. Mm. That's a place I find the rest. I, I wrote, um, I always remember this, this, this passage from some 62, first one to truly my soul, find rest in God. My selfish Asian come from him. Truly, he's my rock. And my selfish Asian is my fault. Rest. I will never be second. I know sometimes, um, everything's that comes to our life, not, not everything's good. There's always the bedside. And then I always, like, I always remind myself, even when I do preach, when I, uh, do the ministry, I always say, Remember, not everyone love me. Speaker 1 00:30:21 Not everyone agree with me. Not everyone would be your supporter. Some of them will be your haters. <laugh> can say the haters, right? And then I always say, whatever I do, I'll do for his name. So it make me more strong. Okay, God, I do that. This for you, not for people. But when I do for you, of course for the people. But when I thought the negative from surround my life, surround strong, surround my, my church or my ministry, I'll feel like guilty and maybe Don or maybe, um, yeah, very weak. But when I remember God purpose, I remember his power, remember His, his present. And that's, uh, that's the, I mean, a very strong power come right away from my, my, my energy, my energy come back and I remember, Oh, God, send me, God is my power. God is my, my, um, hiding place. God. God is my tre. So I remind us, and I have the power. Speaker 0 00:31:37 That's so beautiful. I, I am imagining that our listeners are finding so much, um, like so much insight from that because yeah, just hearing your story and all that you've gone through to be able to live fully into your calling, um, just to know that that's, that's what you do when it gets, like, when the going gets tough, as they say, right? That you just really go to the Lord and not that. Speaker 1 00:32:06 Yeah. I try, I try to find the rest. Sometimes, sometimes even, even pray if you have like heartbroken and very pain, bitterness sometimes for something your prayer and not happen mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then all the people like surrounding you not becoming your supporter. Mm. They be my headers, and they, they put me down. I would say, even to pray, I feel like nothing. And that's the moment I always remind myself, Speaker 1 00:32:39 What is my purpose, Purpose of my life? What is my purpose to come here? What is, um, all the things that God did in my past? So it, um, helps me a lot to, to remind myself. And I feel like, okay, the positive energy come, I mean, like, and at the moment I can, I can connect to the present of the Lord, because when I feel like guilty, I feel like, um, bitterness, I feel like very weak. I have no connecting. I, I can't, I mean, I have no, uh, power to, to attach to him or to call him, or to have connecting. Speaker 0 00:33:24 There's the scripture, right? God's strength is made perfect in our weakness. And so that's just like, God will meet us in our need and will lift us up and curious. And so that, I would think too, maybe Pastor Franziska, that there's a, there's a level of trust mm-hmm. <affirmative> that you have, right? You, you already talked about Jehovah Gy. You already talked about God is provider, um, that God will lead you and guide you, that you have that, that is a huge sense of trust. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> in the divine. And I think for many people in our world today, especially in this area that you and I live and minister in, that's the New York, Greater New York City metropolitan area, the tri-state area that we were so hard hit with Covid, there's economic issues, you know, there's just so many things, divisiveness, politics. I mean, there's so many things right now that would bring people down. Yes. And so to have this kind of, um, just encouragement to trust in God and to just exercise that kind of openness Speaker 1 00:34:31 Yes. Speaker 0 00:34:31 That you're talking about, you have to be open even when you're feeling that discouragement just to be open, to let God take care of you. Speaker 1 00:34:41 Yeah. This is, I like to say to the listener sometimes, you know, um, all the discernment, for example, I, I, um, I always, uh, preach every week I say to them, all the discernment and all the Bible just become the knowledge in your mind. Just knowledge. But if you ask more and you have connecting to God, and you have more experience, experience more better than knowledge for me, because most of, uh, most of obedience, uh, I, I mean myself right now, obedience that I have, most of them, I, I, I, I, uh, get from the experience with God. So the experience make me like strong and all the experience save me a lot if I do that. And if I did that, I feel like better obedience than to disobedience, because this, this obedience cause a lot to my life. But obedience, I know sometimes obstacles, sometimes problem, but I know God with me. Speaker 1 00:35:55 I know he always be with me. But this obedience, I go far from the Lord and I, I, I, I, I do. And I, I hold my burden alone. Oh, I don't want that. I need God because God will take of my burden. So this is, this is what I always say to my life myself, to do the ministry. A lot of things that happen, a lot of, um, for, uh, from, uh, I mean, for example, right now I have a lot of obligation. I say, but I'm so happy. If I feel like get, I feel like tired, so, so am or so drown or whatever, I feel like, Oh, I did more my, I, I did a this with my power. Because when I did with his power, I, I, I'm not getting tired. I can do everything with his power. Right? So when I get tired, it means I did by myself. The power come from myself. If the power come from the Lord, of course I'm not tired. I just boss that I just, the instrument, the power scr come from him. So yeah, Speaker 0 00:37:12 That's a great image of where the power comes from. Right? Where do you get your power? Yeah. And I think in, especially in the United States and in the western world, we talk a lot about how, you know, individualism, people as individuals. And we know that in global communities, like you said, you always come with your family, the sense of community around you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, as you said, supporters, encouragers. So it's family and friends, but having community around you is important. And then there's also, they talk about, literally they say communing with God. Yeah. So there's also about being in that community with God, that that gives you that strength when you don't have it. That, that power, that godly power, that is just, that's a very, um, well powerful <laugh>, um, image. And I hope that our listeners take it to heart. And so, Pastor Franca, I then would like to ask you about a place where you find hope. It feels like you already just shared that, but do you have another place that you find hope or is that the place you find out that you wanted to share with us? Speaker 1 00:38:22 Uh, the only place is that the present of the Lord. So can that person and the other, the other place when I very stressed or a lot of burden, lot of problem. I'll call my super system my support. I have the Caesar prayer, I have 12. The Cesar Prayer. Always pray for me. We have meeting every, every week or once, once, uh, twice a month. And then when I have like, something to do and very emergent in, in the church, the formally, and I always call them to be the part of the team to pray. Speaker 0 00:38:58 So this is that community again, you have, you're saying you have 12 inter accessory prayer partners Yeah. Who pray for you. And anytime you have a anything, you can ask them for prayer. Yeah. And then you have specific times during the month that you also meet. Yeah. Regularly. So it's regular. Speaker 1 00:39:17 This is the part of my secret <laugh> <laugh>. I mean, wherever I go, since I was in Indonesia, also, I have, this is great. So I never, I never go without them. Speaker 0 00:39:30 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 1 00:39:31 Yeah. I always, because I'm still human. If I'm a pastoral lean pastor, I need people who help me, who pray for me. And I need to make sure they already, and then they pray for me. They, they will say yes. Oh, I know. Oh, yeah. They pray. I feel like I need, I need his expression more than, because when I, this is what I believe. Every, every time when I go out, there's always enemies surround me to put me down, to take all the, all my hope, to take all the purpose. So I don't want to play game with it. I, I need his present. I feel like the more power come from him. So that's, Yeah. I think that's a support <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:40:20 Yeah. It's so beautiful. You know, I'm thinking music is important to both of us, and we both love to sing. Um, Yeah. Speaker 1 00:40:27 I really like to sing. Speaker 0 00:40:28 So the song that's coming to my mind, it's from the gospel tradition, but it says, Jesus, be fence, Jesus be fence all around me every day. I need you to protect me as I travel along the way. Yes, Lord. Yes Lord, Yes Lord. Lord be a fence all around. Speaker 1 00:40:46 I need, I need to learn that. That's, Speaker 0 00:40:48 Yeah. It's a good one. But that's just what you were saying. It just brought it right to mind. I love that. I love that. So then Pastor fca, do you have, um, any other verses or quotes that inspire you to embrace hope and be resilient? I know you already mentioned the Psalm 62 versus one and two. Do you have any others you wanna share with our listeners? Speaker 1 00:41:06 Yeah. This is my Philippian for first 19. And my God shall supply all your need according to his reach. Jesus in glory by Christ Jesus. And, um, another Hebrew 13, first eight, I always, um, tell to myself, because I learn Bible and study and say, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. So his spirit, the spirit who, Jesus from the dad, the same spirit living me, but I always say I need to activate the spirit so I can go over the world with his power. So when I'm very weak, I always come to express and, and read again the Bible. I, i, most of, uh, my struggles place. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I, the struggle place. I say I press struggles place because a lot of, uh, things happen. Right. And I always read, for example, uh, someone 21. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, some 91, some 20, 23, God is may. Speaker 1 00:42:22 So it, it helped me a lot to think like, again, to give up sometimes the, the, the, the guilty feeling or bitter, as I say before. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> sometimes drown me and sometimes make me, um, fast, like to stop. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it that I don't want, I don't want to do. I'm stop like that. And, and all the, the, the sound comes to my mind. And then like, you know, I think that's a Holy Spirit. Remind me. Yeah. So I feel like, oh, I need to, And from that situation, the negative and all the things, the bad situation right away, like, change me if I'm being honest. I'm still human. I have a angry anger and I have everything. It just maybe takes like 15 minutes, 10 minutes. And after that they're gone. They're gone. I be like, Oh God. Speaker 1 00:43:26 When, when I did a lot and I serve, I do the ministry, I help people. And then, and after that, they blame me for everything. Something's, I think so <laugh>. Cause I, my best three, three, uh, things in my life, I always say, um, I, I say, fca, you did the good things. Do you, do you do the your best? And I, this is like the measurement for me. I did my best, I do my best. And the second, this is, this is a bless someone, and it's according to Gods will. So three of this always come to my mind if I did all that, and then the people keep thinking like, got, If that's their problem, that's not my problem. My problem is due to my best. I would say maybe I can lie to people, but I can lie, I cannot lie to my, my life. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I'm, I'm the only, No, I did the best that I can do. Or just half of it. Speaker 0 00:44:30 Pastor Francisco, how are you cultivating hope today? Speaker 1 00:44:36 As long as I know Jesus is my power, Holy Spirit in me, there, there always have a hope. Speaker 0 00:44:44 Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 00:44:44 <affirmative>, because we, we, we talk about the cultivating because because surround surround us a lot of, uh, bad news. A lot of, uh, um, ungodly people, <laugh> surround us, I feel like. And then, so that's why I say before, I always make sure, and I tell to myself, I did everything for the G to glorify his name for God, not for human, not for men. Because if, if I thought I did for the men, and I, I, I, I do, um, for the people, and they, they not respond positive the way that I did the good things to them. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 0 00:45:28 Right. They're not responding with, with that feeling of positivity or of hope. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's hard. That's hard. I think there's a lot of people out there right now that are just doing their best and it's maybe not being understood or received Yeah. In that in the same way. And so if you do have Right. Our divine parent, right, God, that we're doing it for, and that is pleased in us. And that just will help us to be able to balance that. Right. It's balancing, Speaker 1 00:46:03 I feel, um, only God, God will open their mind. I have no power to change people. God has been, can change everything. My part is as a pastor, as the people of God, I just do whatever I can do, do my best, and the rest God will do his part, my part do the best. Speaker 0 00:46:26 So I hope every person that's listening to this takes heart from that. Because you're saying that that's how you cultivate hope as a pastor. So, you know, sometimes people think, Oh, pastors are just always have everything, you know, they've always got God is right there with them and everything always is, you know, works out great. And you know, it's always positive, but just thinking, I hope they're taking encouragement from this, that even as a pastor, that's how you have to cultivate hope. And so that, that, if that's what a pastor has to do, then anybody can have access to that and anybody can invest in that way and, um, and, and cultivate hope for themselves. Speaker 1 00:47:09 Yes. Because in Speaker 0 00:47:11 A world that's so difficult Speaker 1 00:47:13 Yeah. The sort of, the hope, just God, my part is just bring them to come to the source of the hope. Our Lord Jesus Christ. So beautiful. Yeah. So that's so great. They, they thought all the pastor is like Superman or Superwoman, <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative> pastor, still, still, still the, still the human and have a weakness. But same like you pastor, we all have a hope only in that person. Speaker 0 00:47:39 Yeah. Speaker 1 00:47:39 So that's our story to bring them. Speaker 0 00:47:41 Yeah. You know, my nickname is the Rev of keeping it real. <laugh>. And I, I like to always just be honest about that because, you know, my first, my first career was in show business. I was an actress and a, and a spokesperson. And when God called me into the ministry, it was a little different than you. You already were a pastor when God called you here. But it was that same kind of thing of like, are you kidding me? So, so when you're talking about pastors as real people and that we also have our emotions and we have our struggles too, I think that's so important, um, because we're all on this journey together. Right. And that's part of, I like to say when Jesus said love one another, it was that Greek word agape, which is that community love. Right. And you've just been talking about that so much. Again, the communion with, with God, uh, is the real source. That's the big strong source. And then there's this beautiful community around us that can encourage us, um, on our journey. So, so beautiful. So Pastor Frenzy, Scott, do you have anything that you, you're working on or any, um, projects or anything that you wanna share with us? Or maybe you wanna invite our listeners that might live in the area to come and visit your church even I'm hoping Speaker 1 00:49:01 <laugh>. Yeah. I, I, uh, we just finished our program, uh, soaking in his present that the minutes, um, talking in present in his present. Um, and we, we do, uh, like the worst and I think for three, four minutes for the message. And after that we do the singing again. The, so Speaker 0 00:49:31 It's called soaking in his presence. And is that live, But you also have it on, um, it's also virtual, right? Speaker 1 00:49:39 Yeah. Virtual and in person, but in person life, you just, few people, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, most of is because we do the live stream. Speaker 0 00:49:47 How do they find that then? Do they just go, is it Facebook Live that they can watch about? Speaker 1 00:49:52 Yeah, Facebook Live. You can, you can, uh, going in through a function of Metin Facebook and also see, our Speaker 0 00:50:01 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 1 00:50:02 Yeah. Um, they have a link there, but, uh, sucking in, in his present just, just finished two weeks ago. So we'll prepare for the next fun season, Speaker 0 00:50:14 Advent season. Okay. So that'll be coming. Speaker 1 00:50:16 Yeah. Coming. Speaker 0 00:50:17 And we get like closer to Christmas in December. Speaker 1 00:50:19 Yes. And uh, also I have, uh, we just, we just finished our worship team, worship team retreat. Speaker 0 00:50:28 Nice. Speaker 1 00:50:29 So, um, I have, uh, more worship and media, multimedia, worship and media team, uh, around 46 people. Speaker 0 00:50:40 Beautiful. Speaker 1 00:50:42 Yeah. We've been, uh, three days at, and we, we, we understand more about how to worship God, just you good on singing or you good on multimedia, but how to bring the person of God so people can feel the person of God. That's kind of that. And then, um, I feel like, um, in the future, this is my, uh, come to my intense, how to prepare the next generation Speaker 0 00:51:11 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 1 00:51:12 So, uh, I, I, uh, I'm glad I have like more inherent people mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I like to have disciples. I have to, to have a future leader. I need to have the future leader. I need to have, if I'm getting tired or I mean getting all, or I, I need to prepare. So I'm serious on youth. Um, Speaker 0 00:51:37 So preparing future leaders Speaker 1 00:51:39 Yeah. Is very important. Speaker 0 00:51:41 Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:51:43 Well, you know, I'm just thinking you've got multimedia and music, and I just, I mean, for any of our listeners that are in the area and are looking for a church to visit, we never wanna pull people away from a church where they already are. But if they're looking for a church to visit, um, your church on Sunday morning, uh, you've got beautiful music ministry, you have some really, um, I mean, you have your own background in music, but you've got some really, really amazing musicians, Indonesian musicians who are part of your music team. And so I'm just thinking, you've got youth, you've got multimedia, you've got music, I mean, all of that. Like, who doesn't wanna be a part of that? You know what I mean? And I would just think that that will be drawing in, uh, young people. Um, and then it's not just doing all of that to do that, cuz that's fun. It's, you know, with music and multimedia, but you know, you really wanna be doing it as a disciple. And so I love that you have that as the foundation. Speaker 1 00:52:46 Yeah. Because most of the, I don't want to blame or I don't want to be the judge. I mean, most of church, like they, they very concentrate for the adult ministry and forget how important you and how important Sunday school they, they need to put, um, all of two ministry in the top. I mean, like, um, I don't mind to give a change to like a youth pastor preach or taking care of this and then prepare for the leadership. And I, I've been doing that right now. So all the youth be like, um, people are more involved in all the ministry and the church. They're not just outsider, but they be inside and they be part of the ministry. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:53:39 That's so beautiful. That's part of, you know, I, I have this ministry that I am stewarding called equity Based Hospitality. And the whole point of it is you wanna draw the circle wide and embrace everybody in so they can find their purpose and their sense of belonging. Yes. In Christ and in the community Speaker 1 00:54:00 And in the church. Speaker 0 00:54:02 Yes. So in the church, in the community of faith. Exactly. And so I love when you're saying that have all the people involved, that's the way to do it. I love it. Speaker 1 00:54:12 Yes. Speaker 0 00:54:12 That's beautiful. Well, Pastor Franca, thank you so much. Is there any final thing that you wanna say to our listeners as we're signing off here? Speaker 1 00:54:22 Yeah, my conclusion, I just, I just want to say this word, obedience more important and make sure you know your purpose. If you don't know your purpose, I, I like to say to you, your purpose is to glorify his name. That's nothing else because that's the part of all of us got sent to this world to prepare, to be delight, to be the salt in this world. Unless everyone saw Jesus strong life, we are open book for everyone. I like to encourage everyone to have a good relationship with God and let his present his spirit. Come. Speaker 0 00:55:13 Thank you so much, Pastor F it was such a blessing to have you on the podcast today. Thank you for all of your beautiful story sharing and all your encouragement for all of us. Your life is a testimony to how we can walk in obedience and be resilient and overcome many things and live vibrantly into our purpose. So thank you so much and God bless you, your congregation, your family. Thank you. Speaker 1 00:55:37 Thank you. Speaker 0 00:55:44 Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Lavish Hope, season four. I hope my conversation with Pastor Franca has offered insights into what lavish hope, resilience, and overcoming can mean for your life's journey, as well as those around you. If you'd like to connect with Pastor Franca, you may do so via Facebook or Instagram. Just search Reformed Church of Uchin. She also warmly welcomes any New Jersey or New York City area, locals without a church home to join her in her congregation for Sunday Worship, starting at 10:30 AM This episode is brought to you by Faith, an online learning community where you'll find ideas for living out your faith and living into your calling, reflections on scripture and church, self-guided courses on topics like contemplative prayer and equity based hospitality, and lots of discipleship resources for your faith community in English, E and esp, esp. The Lavish Hope podcast executive production team includes Maria or Lorraine Parker, Grace Reuter, and me, Liz Teta, sound design and editing by the amazing Garrett Steyer. Special thanks to New Brunswick Theological Seminary for the use of Studio 35 for the recording of this interview. Until next time, may you find ways to cultivate lavish hope and build resilience each and every day. God bless you.

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